i love apple. >> okay. both of you like apple. that's it for forbes on fox. have a great weekend. keep it here, number one business spot continues with cheryl casone and "cashin' in". >> now that the health care slaw here to stay, more side effects popping up from the law. despite the president promising it would lower costs, wal-mart now warning its employees it will have to pay up to 36% more for health insurance next year. and an owner of dozens of denny's restaurants says the law will force them to cut workers hours and hike prices by 5% on its customers and he's one of many saying similar things. our guys have been warning this would happen. how bad will this get? i'm cheryl casone. welcome to "cashin' in". our crew we have wayne rogers, jonathan, tracy byrnes and christian is back with us today. so welcome to all of you tracy, you were one of those on the show, you were warning about the side effects of the health care

law. how bad is it going to get? >> it's getting bad already. the unintended consequences are out of control. look, people are going to get laid off. we're hearing that already 'cause companies just don't want to pay for health care. if you have a job, your hours might get cut to part-time or consultant. my brother just got hired as a consultant 'cause nobody wants to pay health care. then there is the premium angle of it. we hear at news corps, our premiums are going up because it is getting more expensive. everything is going to be affected by this and we've been saying it since the canaan -- nancy pelosi said she had to read the darn thing. >> i know your criticism is they didn't read it before they passed it, but one of the big criticisms here is that there was no cost control in the law, so here we are. >> well, it's going to be that way. health care costs are rising everywhere. it's a universal problem. the thing is the people are going to try to find ways to get around this in the sense that it's going to cost them more and if they can find ways, they'll do it.

you got 2200 pages of regulation that you're right, nobody has read. the people who administratorring it haven't read it. they're beginning to read it. we don't know what the ultimate cost is going to be. they're going to be taxes that come out of this, all kinds of other things that happen. in the meantime, if you hire over -- this is what is considered a small business -- if there are 50 people or less, you are subject to one thing. if you're hiring more than 50 people, you are subject to something else. if those people work 30 hours a week, they're going to come under obamacare. if they work 28 hours a week or 29 hours a week issues they do not. so what you're going to have is people cutting back the time that people, instead of 40 hour workweek, they'll have more people work 28 hour week. there is going to be all kinds of fallout. >> you're right. you know what, christian, the other point here and the question is, are we going to see more u.s. companies begin to scale back and kind of fudge the numbers? we've had several ceo's come on and tell us that's what they're planning to do.

>> in a lot of cases what you're talking about, restaurants and other, food service industry, this is what they've been doing for a decade or more. so to all of a sudden link this to obamacare is really disingenuous. >> to be fair action the ceo's have said that's what they are blaming. they're coming on television, national television and telling us they blame the health care law. >> they blame it, but they've already been doing it. so they're blaming something that hasn't yet happened for something that they've already been doing. let's take a look at real world experience. let's not speculate. massachusetts very much resembles what obamacare is. since romneycare was instituted in massachusetts, employers covering their employees with health insurance has gone up from 70% to 80%. so we can take a real life example, not just wild speculation, and see that there is absolutely no reason why employers can't cover their employees with health care.

>> john, i will say this to you, this is not speculation. these are facts, the heads of these companies are actually making these moves and cutting down and then you've got perfect example of the guy that owns the 40 restaurants in florida, all the denny's, he says i'm going to cut back and add 5% to the bills of my customers to keep those insure that had i already have on the books. this is real. >> yeah. this is not wild speculation. this guy at denny's says it cost him an extra $5,000 per employee per year and says if i have to cover all of my employees, that's about $175,000 per restaurant. he said a lot of my restaurants don't make $175,000. so here is a guy who literally cannot afford obamacare and what he's saying is i'm going to have to cut guys back to 28 hours, those at the front. some have to get a second job because they can't afford to live just on 28 hours a week of pay. this is real life situations in these companies and the problem we have is just like tracy said, we had no health care reform. all we had was insurance reform,

sticking more people into a broken system. >> jonathan, at the same time, if you look at the average of what many companies are doing and what they're going to pay, we're look at an average of 9% in higher premiums in 2013. many people are taking the top shelf plans and cutting them ought. >> wal-mart, papa john's, the result of obamacare is destruction. that was obamacare's goal much his goal was not to fix health care. it was to destroy the last remaining advicages of an actual free health care system in this country. obama talked openly about his advocacy for single payer and we're seeing that play out in practice where every private option is literally snuffed out of existence. i'm more worried about even the health care itself. it's not only that we're seeing health care option go away, we're seeing doctors leave the practice and leave the practice of medicine in massive scale. health care in this country is about to be as good as the post office of the dmv. stay healthy. >> that's the thing. there is no medical -- we

haven't fixed the problem because now you got people that are going to turn down it, like wal-mart. those guys at wal-mart will say opt out. i don't want to pay the extra -- >> everyone goes to the public system. there is your single payer. that was obama's goal. >> that's going to destroy the medical system and we will lose all our quality doctors. >> christian? >> wait, wait. go ahead. >> i hate to let facts get in the way of -- >> that's fact! that is fact, christian. >> if you look at restaurants who are already 75% of restaurant employees are working part-time, so what we're talking about now is that they're going to continue o have part-time workers, but those workers are now going to health insurance. what we're lamenting, what you all are lamenting is the fact that workers who are making an average of about $15,000 a year are going to actually have health insurance now. that's the problem that you all see in our economy. >> they're going to have it at a job they don't have. that's the whole point, christian. it's not just restaurants.

headed by an obama supporters, they're laying off workers. they're a medical supply company. >> they're not going to fire all of their employees. because you can't make any money if you don't have employees. let's get real. let's not pretend. >> okay. let me bring in wayne rogers because wayne, what we're talking about here is maybe companies -- this is christian's point, they're not laying off people. they may be restructuring how they cover the employees that they have. i mean, is that a threat, do you think, to jobs or no? >> well, all due respect to christian, christian, you mentioned that the restaurant business is not necessarily representative. i, as you well know, principle in a business. we employ over 200 people. it is going to be a big impact on us. we do not know yet what it's going to fully do. are we going to have to lay off some people? yes, we will probably have to lay off some people. we will have to reschedule a lot of things, a lot of things will be done.

we can't certainly absorb it all. that's for sure. so this thing has not been thought through by the bureaucracy. it wasn't thought through by the people who wrote the bill. they didn't know anything. we've got idiots running it. now we're going to have to try to solve this in some way and it isn't going to be pleasant. some people are going to lose their jobs. that is for sure. and some people are going to get cut back and it is not necessarily going to be universal health care surfers. >> my last question to you, i want to ask you, do you think we'll see more americans, because they can't afford the higher premiums, just drop their own health care all together? >> yeah. i think we will. i think what tracy is saying about consultants, she can call it contract labor, i think that's where we're going to go with this system. i don't think you can argue that health premiums are going to go up because we did nothing for health care reform. there is no reason that a heart procedure in one hospital costs 50 times as much in another hospital. there is no transparency. we have not dealt with that. we only dealt with insurance reform. that's going to exacerbate the fractures. >> well said. everybody, great discussion. thank you so much.

coming up, it's not just the fiscal cliff taxpayers should be bracing for. now there is al gore's climate cliff. plus a new plan to keep the lights from going out when the next sandy hits. that could hit everyone's electric k in 1894, bill. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪

just in time for the polaris holiday sales event. get financing as low as 2.99% on all polaris atvs and side-by-sides including the new twenty-thirteens. plus rebates up to one thousand dollars on select twenty-twelves. incredible deals on... legendary sportsman... powerful rangers... and razor sharp razors. financing as low as 2.99% and rebates up to one thousand dollars ends december 31st. get all the detas at polaris.com.

ends december 31st. is bigger than we think ... sometimelike the flu.fer from with aches, fever and chills- the flu's a really big deal. so why treat it like it's a little cold? there's something that works differently than over-the-counter remedies. prescription tamiflu attacks the flu virus at its source. so don't wait. call your doctor right away. tamiflu is prescription medicine for treating the flu in adults and children one year and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if you're pregnant, nursing. have serious health conditions, or take other medicines. if you develop an allergic reaction, a severe rash, or signs of unusual behavior, stop taking tamiflu and call your doctor immediately.

children and adolescents in particular may be at an increased risk of seizures, confusion or abnormal behavior. the most common side effects are mild to moderate nausea and vomiting. the flu comes on fast, so ask your doctor about tamiflu. prescription for flu. >> forget the pick cliff. are we about to go over the climate cliff? al gore calling for a carbon tax to be part of the negotiations. he said it will help fight global warming and keep individual tax rates low. wayne, you're cold on this global warming idea and the tax. why? >> well, he's a politician. he's not a climate thomas. it's like asking barney frank to be an expert on bank, although he wrote a banking bill. they're implicating unnecessarily -- they've got a problem already. you're talking about the fiscal cliff, which has to do with taxes and has to do with income and has to do with things that have nothing to do with the

climate whatsoever. so to inject this into there to make it unnecessarily economicked and if they did, somebody has got to pay for it and they got to figure out some way to do it. this is just making a mess out of something that's already too difficult to solve. >> who ends up paying for it? companies most likely. i mean, we like to tax really wealthy folks and like to tax companies, especially energy companies. >> yeah. we hate these guys. look, unfortunately for the environmental movement, al gore was sprayed with human repellant at some point during his life and he has some good ideas. this is not one of them. this is just going to be passed along to consumers and to the companies. this is just a penalty for being a fossil fuel company. if the production tax credit, which encourages -- it's not a subsidy, it's a tax credit for infrastructure for energy, if it's not extended, you'll see renewable energy structure go down 720 to 80%. this is a dumb fight to pick.

>> christian, while some say this is a pretty far fetched idea and it doesn't really stand a chance, at the same time, al gore contend this is would actually help individuals get their tax rates lower because it would be extra revenue. but that would be -- we'd have to make that happen, correct? >> yeah. i think al gore is right about the policy of a carbon tax, but wrong about the timing. we do need a carbon tax because right now the price of carbon fuels is not account for the cost, pollution, health care and otherwise. that's a market failure. that's a market distortion. you need to fix that. but a well designed carbon tax has to be revenue neutral. it has to be offset with reductions and payroll tax which is is not part of our current fiscal discussion. so he's right about the policy, but really wrong about the timing. >> jonathan, they would have to accomplish that to hold back and not spend the revenues from a carbon tax or a vat tax on energy tax, take your pick. >> cheryl, what about man in all this? what about man's life?

honestly, i don't want to liken the former vice president to a cult leader, he's not jim jones or david coo refresh, but he's add folking suicide in this. we need carbon to live. carbon power is every element of our world and in fact, the more carbon we burn, the longer and better man's life has become and in fact, the less and less carbon and climate related deaths we've had the more carbon we've burned. so to start taxing carbon, it's like taxing breathing or blood, it will have a suicidal effect on not only business, but mankind in general. >> i want to know if al gore has a television at home. has he been watching what we've been talking about for the last year and a half? we don't have bloody time for a carbon tax right now! we have a lot more other things to talk about and these people, as we've said before, cannot find their way to the bathroom most days. you want to complicate it with a carbon tax that nobody even knows what the hell it is half the time! he's nuts? tell him to go back to the internet. >> as we talk about a potential carbon tax or other taxes, i go

back to the issue of what happens to american businesses that are being saddled. we had a health care discussion last segment, now this. what would companies do? do you think that would lead to layoffs? >> well, yes in the sense it's going to cost. >> no -- to cost more. you can debate whether or not, you know, the earth's temperature is rising because of human carbon use. you can debate yes and no and all of that. the scientific stuff is meaningless when it comes to the fact that what christian said is absolutely right. this is the wrong time. we've got a big fiscal problem in front of us, a cliff that's going to occur here in the next two or three months if we don't solve it and here is a guy coming along saying, i'm going to complicate it with a carbon thing. that's just nuts! >> it's not just a question of implicating it, it's a question of hurting. imagine al gore landed at plymouth rock. he would say, i want to impose a tax on every tree you cut down. imagine what the real life

negative examples that would result from this type of thing. >> jonathan -- >> that's like saying your motto needs to be fish baby fish, when we've whale oil being used to power electricity. we've got to advance somewhere. i agree with the carbon tax. >> you think carbon -- >> okay carbon isn't poison. >> i didn't say it was. >> this is the washington mentality. let's see what we can get in under the gun. >> christian, five seconds. >> yeah. i think we all agree that the timing is wrong, but jonathan, you are absolutely dead wrong, especially your being a market guy. you should recognize that the price of car done does not reflect its cost and the carbon tax is designed tho do that. but we shouldn't look at it as a big revenue raiser. we should look at it as a way to normalize the market and make it equitable. >> i want to stay on this environmental story because coming up, lights are still out

for lots of sandy victims. now there is a plan to raise electric bills for all americans you can try strategies from independent experts and see wh criteria they use. such as a 5% yield on dividend-paying stocks. then you can customize the strategies and narrow down to exactly those stocks you want to follow. i'm mark allen of fidelity investments. the expert strategies feature is one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account.

>> coming up, new calls to storm proof power lines across america before the next disaster. is it worth the hefty price tag? plus, how government

>> hello, i'm uma pemmaraju in washington. fox news is closely monitoring the growing tensions between israel and hamas in the gaza strip. at this hour, the air strikes are continuing with israel launching nearly 200 strikes this morning. one apparently striking down a rocket aimed at tel aviv. we'll have the very latest in a live report, plus an exclusive

with israel's deputy knesset speaker, live from tel aviv. hearings from capitol hill this week about the benghazi attack. but did we get all the answers? fair and balanced, we'll be talking to lawmakers in both sides of the aisle. plus the impact of david petraeus' testimony from former attorney general alberto gonzalez will be coming your way. they fought in iraq and afghanistan. now they're fighting to help people rebuild their lives after super storm sandy. how these veterans and their new mission of mercy is making an impact, when america's news headquarters starts at the top of the hour. don't go away. see you then. >> nearly three weeks after super storm sandy and thousands of people still without power. now calls to start burying power lines under ground everywhere to keep people out of the dark after future storms. but that could cost as much as $2 million per mile in many cities. tracy, do you think it's worth the cost to avoid the large scale power outages in the

future, like we've just had here? >> you know what, cheryl? the system was fixed with bubble gum and duct tape this most recent time to get the power back on. it's so fragile, the next cool breeze tha comes down my block, i will be without power again for a week. you know what? when they created this grid, they did not anticipate the amount of power we would be needing today. now you're talking about getting electric cars on-line of the my goodness, stop kicking the can down the road with everything we do in this country! fix it now. it's not for me, for the sake of my grandchildren. they don't need this. >> jonathan, wouldn't the electric power companies just pass it on to the consumer? >> they would. i think, in fact, if you wanted to really make a change here, let's privatize some of those companies, like long island power, i'm guessing where you reside. privatize them. if the money will spent, let it be funded by private prices or get rid of laws that prevents price gouging. a lot better and smarter ideas

rather than spending orgy over what was a terrible loss of life, but i think ultimately much more of an inconvenience for the economy at large. >> christian, i can see the actor that if we put them underground, this won't happen again. it's an investment now for a payoff later. >> absolutely. undergrounding lines, investing in the smart grid. right now we lose $20 billion at least per year when there are power outages. we have technology that's built on a 19th century platform. and we didn't get to be one of the most advanced countries in the world by thinking small. we need to bring the othos that we brought to the highway system and commit money over decades to getting this fixed. tracy is absolutely right. >> i don't know, john. should we put this in a new energy policy? >> there is no doubt about it. we have no energy policy, so we don't know how things like a carbon into what we're trying to do. we have no long-term grid policy. what christian is saying is correct. ask a politician what's the grid going to look like when it's

2050? they have zero ideas. so when we have things, we patch things back together. we have got to fix this grid and we've got it get to a smart grid with a dc -- >> you want to do all this because of one storm? >> you have the audacity so call this an inconvenience! the people in staten island and long island are so beyond inconvenience! you can not keep kick the can down the road because it's going to cause a higher electric bill. >> i've got a short amount of time. wayne, last word what, do you think? >> i think it's a fairly simple solution. it's got to be paid for by somehow. just have the people vote on it. say, we want to vote on this. we want to put this underground. we don't want to have to do this again and we'll pay the price for it. assess us for it and we'll do it. that's all. just don't let the politicians do it. >> there you go. >> birmingham, alabama, how well that turned out. >> thank you. christian, thank you for joining us. it's always good to have you on the show.

>> thank you. >> coming up, everybody, you better save your money this thanksgiving because come this time next year, government regulations may have you paying more to see the family on turkey day yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery.

why let constipation stry miralax.? mirlax worksdifferently than other laxatives. it dws water into your colon to unblock your system naturally. don't wait to fe great. miralax. >> time for what do i need to know for next week. tracy? >> next summer, new regulations are going to kick in. we'll see a pilot shortage. but we already have a pilot short annual. that means your ticket prices will go up. go see your family this year while it's not too late. >> john? >> certain investors like wayne rogers, you want to invest alongside. carl eye consequence, he bought into next quick. good time to buy. >> wayne rogers then? >> well, i like davita health care and i'm investing long side mr. buffet. that's been i think health care is going to do well under this president. >> all right. jonathan? >> well, maybe a huge obama rally we've been having. the weakest stocks has been the dividend payers, the